Hot take: Crossovers are pointless

"Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo" (akioohtori)
08/11/2019 at 18:03 • Filed to: rentalcars

This is my rental car. There are many like it but this one is mine. It has good pickup and go, handles well, is easy to get in and out of, and absolutely swallows cargo. Three humans, three carry-ons, six massive checked bags, an Ikea run and a liquor store and we had room for so much more.

It does however feel like the transmission is about to fall out and the radio sucks bad.

!!! UNKNOWN HEADER TYPE (MULTI-LINE BREAK?) !!!

DISCUSSION (30)

RiceRocketeer Extraordinaire > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
08/11/2019 at 18:05

you're preaching to the choir here

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
08/11/2019 at 18:10

oooo it has GT wheels. Is it a GT?

Deal Killer - Powered by Focus > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
08/11/2019 at 18:14

I sorta miss our ‘06 Chrysler T & C. With two kids and luggage for a weekend or whatever, it was astonishing the amount of room. And it was a good riding van that, even with the 3.8 and a 4-speed auto, could get in the mid to hi 20’s on the highway. New vans have the same mpg, with better engines and 6-8 speed trannys.

Under_Score > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
08/11/2019 at 18:17

Kinja'd!!!

Considering it’s 1.5 feet shorter than a Grand Caravan, I think it’s a good compromise.

SiennaMan > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
08/11/2019 at 18:19

Yeah, I’ve been saying this for years. F rom a practicality standpoint, whether Dodge/Chrysler, Honda, Toyota or Kia a minivan can’t be beat.

eyeofthetiger > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
08/11/2019 at 18:19

It is basically a piece of crap, but those stow-n-go seats are so sexy .... haul people, or fold them down and haul plywood or wild dogs.

wafflesnfalafel > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
08/11/2019 at 18:22

yeah... humans are not always rational animals. Our neighbors just got a new red one of those, (wheelchair conversion.) It isn’t fancy but it’s nice and very functional. .

someassemblyrequired > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
08/11/2019 at 18:26

It’s the 4 wheeled Swiss Army knife . Plus they’re a good 10-20K less than a comparably equipped suv or crossover. I have the debadged Harmon/Kardon in mine so tunes are awesome, but yeah the transmission feels like it’s going to eject all its vital components every time you mash the accelerator.

BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
08/11/2019 at 18:30

Driving a crossover, I feel kinda lame and anonymous, boring and a follower. It’s like wearing red shorts; played out and not really fashionable, but won’t get you laughed at and you’d just blend in.

Driving a minivan, I feel like my life is over because i have twelve screaming children and I’m stuck looking at this terrible egg shaped blob that can’t do anything adventurous or sporty or fast or svelte. I give my keys to a valet and I think they’re secretly belittling me. Nobody wants this life. Nobody envies me. Nobody dreams to be me, or is excited by me, or would ever want to be with me.

This is the level of despair that I spiral into when i think about minivans.

shop-teacher > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
08/11/2019 at 18:52

Blahblahblah

not for canada - australian in disguise > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
08/11/2019 at 19:16

Hot take: Crossovers under ~ $50k are pointless, but more expensive “sports” crossovers like the Stelvio, Range Rover Sport SVR and Macan aren’t because they’re basically bigger, comfier, slightly less nimble hot hatches. And three row crossovers (Pilot, Traverse, Sorento, Highlander, list goes on) are just minivans pretending to not be minivans.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
08/11/2019 at 19:30

Apparently yes

FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
08/11/2019 at 19:40

I work in an absolutely huge campus (over 20,000 acres) and we have tons of Caravans. They are great for shared runabouts because like you mentioned they can swallow both people and cargo with ease. And it is easy to fold the seats to switch between modes. Also when there is just one person running to a meeting in one it is still decently efficient. Unfortunately actually living with one isn’t so great according to people I know that have bought them. They churn through tires, brakes and front suspension components as often as cabin air filters. The transmissions tend to grenade unexpectedly. The interior trim starts falling apart rapidly around 60,000 miles. Other things fail. Basically you will get stranded if you own one outside of warranty. Chrysler may have fixed some of the issues over the years that this generation went on sale but they were awfully unreliable when they debuted. Other competing minivans have been similarly unreliable - even the vaunted Honda has had transmission issues over the years leading to a big recall at one point. Crossovers have a more rugged image and anecdotally people seem to think that makes them more durable than minivans although that certainly isn’t the case across the board.

subexpression > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
08/11/2019 at 21:06

I think s ome of the image problem minivans used to carry (like soccer mom with a mob of spoiled-rotten kids) has now moved to 3-row crossovers. Especially since there are luxury 3-row crossovers, but the idea of luxury minivans never really took off.

I dislike minivans because they don’t suit my needs and are often built like they’re disposable while priced like they’ll last forever , but I wish more things had sliding doors .

ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
08/11/2019 at 21:49

Does it handle well?

merged-5876237249235911857-hrw8uc > Deal Killer - Powered by Focus
08/12/2019 at 00:03

9 speed ZF trans are the new normal for FCA and Honda. Too many gears for my tastes, 6 speed is plenty, but so be it.

Future Heap Owner > Deal Killer - Powered by Focus
08/12/2019 at 00:13

Oh ho, I remember being alone in the back row of my parents’ 04( -ish) Town & Country for many a road trip, next to all the luggage behind 2/3rds of the middle row (I am the oldest of three boys). So much room in that thing.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
08/12/2019 at 02:05

Car like so.... Ish?

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > BrianGriffin thinks “reliable” is just a state of mind
08/12/2019 at 08:02

I’m stuck looking at this terrible egg shaped blob that can’t do anything adventurous or sporty or fast or svelte

You just described pretty much every crossover in existence.

Crossovers to me are the ultimate “I’ve given up on life” vehicle. People buy them to be like everyone else.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
08/12/2019 at 08:06

Guessing it’s a GT so it has the “pricier” stereo. Weird, our radio in our SE is awesome. The trans was a little confused at first, but now that I’ve been driving it it has adapted to my driving and is very quick shifting with firm, but not harsh shifts.

We’ve put 3k on ours already and we love it.

Kinja'd!!!

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > ItalianJobR53 - now with added 'MERICA and unreliability
08/12/2019 at 08:07

Could have been a special order like mine.

Basic SE with all the GT styling/handling goodies.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > someassemblyrequired
08/12/2019 at 08:08

They do adapt to their driver. Mine was a little sketchy when we first got it, but now after 3k of me driving it, it shifts great.

someassemblyrequired > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
08/12/2019 at 09:06

Yeah most of the time it’s great once it’s dialed in . It’s only really angry on the double-downshift.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > someassemblyrequired
08/12/2019 at 10:01

I’ve found punching it to the floor so it downshifts right away keeps it from the harsh double downshift.

Other then the initial adapting, I’ve loved ours so far.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Deal Killer - Powered by Focus
08/12/2019 at 10:09

Personal opinion here:

The reason the new/newer vans can’t accomplish the fuel economy the older vans could is 2 fold.

1. They lack good low end torque, so they try to cover it with extra gears.

2. They are obnoxiously heavy.

My 2018 averages slightly worse economy in mixed driving than my 1992, despite having 3 extra gears and double the power. It also makes all it’s power above 4k rpms and weighs over 1500 lbs more.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > FTTOHG Has Moved to https://opposite-lock.com
08/12/2019 at 10:12

The 6 speed in the modern vans is a modified a604, which has been in use since the late 80s.

Just like those of the early models, they need fluid/filter changed at 60k intervals in normal use, in city traffic they should be changed at 30k. Fail to do either and you may have a trans grenade early.

someassemblyrequired > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
08/12/2019 at 12:31

Thanks, I’ll try that and see how it goes.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > someassemblyrequired
08/12/2019 at 12:38

If you’re not the only driver it may be hard though. Like I said, they do adapt to the driver, so if you drive hard but your SO drives light, you’ll be fighting a losing battle.

Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo > Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness
08/12/2019 at 14:19

Yeah I can see why. Solid machine.

Long_Voyager, Now With More Caravanny Goodness > Akio Ohtori - RIP Oppo
08/12/2019 at 16:05

It was our unicorn, that’s why it’s in our driveway.

2018 Grand Caravan SE with the 2nd row bench, all the GT suspension/wheels/body parts added by the dealer upon delivery.

From what the salesman told us, the guy does it every 1.5-2 years, ends up spending almost $10k more than what a loaded GT would cost, but gets him exactly the van he wants.

Thankfully for me, there’s someone else in the area who hates captains chairs in the 2nd row as much as I do, but also hates the way the base van drives.